Cycling Forum - Cyclingpost.com

After Liberty Seguros pulled out as sponsors, what´s going to happen now? What happens with the riders in the Giro? Will everyone have to look for a new team now in the middle of the season?

Marino Lejarreta said that the rest of the team (after the abandons of Serrano, Baranowski, Scarponi and Yakowlew) will quit the giro this evening.

He said also that the team can continue also without a sponsor...

But I think they will be put out of the Tour de France...

what wil hapend whit the team

"http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/ciclismo/giro_de_italia/es/desarrollo/652674.html"

No, they will continue riding the giro, and they will continue wearing their tricots...

Will Alexandre Vinokourov be able to ride the Tour-de-France, and would Ivan Basso, Jan Ullrich, Alejandro Valverde, Francisco Mancebo, and all the other potential winners be happy if Vino is excluded ?

They know they have to beat him to win the Tour-de-France, so Vinokourov must ride !

SeanRM

Vino just said that he would ride the TDF with or without Liberty, so he´ll be there.

Read that "Liberty" would most probably ride the whole season. Is that even possible without a sponsor?

There is still Würth, their co-sponsor. Maybe they will sponsor them until the end of the season?

In normal cases I would think someone else would sponsor the whole team, such as Liberty did after ONCE retired. But now, I think nobody would like to sponser a "doped" team. I'm not saying everyone of the team used dope, but as Saiz and the team doctor were arrested, a lot of them must have used.

Confirmation: Würth is from now on their main sponsor until the rest of the season. The team stays in the ProTour with new shirts 8)

It will be exciting to see how their new shirts will look like. A little bit sad though, thought their old ones looked splendid :) But will the team now be reffered to simply as "Wurth"? Man, that´s an ugly name....

Normally it will be reduced to Würth, as Liberty Seguros cancelled their sponsoring. If they can attract a co-sponsor (don't think so) their name will probably be in the teamname too.

Read that Casero, Gonzalez and Prat were on Fuentes´ list. Why have only three names been revealed? seems weird...

because there are ex-Vuelta winners

So, Sevilla, Unai Osa, Angel Vicioso and Santiago Botero also reported to be on the list. Seems like many big names have used Fuentes.

Do you remember Jesus Manzano? He told that almost half of the peloton worked with Fuentes...

yeah, remember him. And to be honest, I think he´s right!! But then, you shouldn´t believe all a doping caught rider says....

Jose Enrique Gurierrez named as well. This is gonna be interesting :o

These guys are named:

Santiago Botero
José Enrique Gutiérrez Cataluna
Roberto Heras
Unai Osa
Michele Scarponi
Oscar Sevilla
Angel Vicioso
Alejandro Valverde !!!
Jose Antonio Escuredo (medaillist OS 2004 Athene)

lol and who hadnt guesed guiterez, once again phonak the dopes are caught :S

Some newspapers say that Basso is on the list as well.....

Well, apparetly Basso's name was mentioned in a telephoneconversation between Fuentes and Saiz - this accusation is made by a spanish magasin - Interviu, who claims to hold the transcripts of the conversation. It's also this magasin that implies the connection to "The Buffalo".

Otherwise it seems as if the riders, who in the past have worked with Checchini, is also on the list - this should explain why Ullrich and Basso is mentioned. Checchini and Fuentes is somehow linked to eachother in the past.

While T-mobile demands a written denail from all of their riders of any connection to Fuentes, Team CSC doesn't see that necesary - and proclaims that they are not worried about theese allegations. In not sure how Phonak and other teams handle this case.

Hopefully the spanish authorities and the international cycling federation will be able to make a fast and effective investigation, so the cheaters can be banned, and everyone else free off suspicion.

Seems like once again Phonak is in the middle of doping investigations. When are they going to learn? First Hamilton, then Perez, then Guidi, then Urweider and now this with their biggest riders involved. Get rid of Phonak....

But what do you think will happen to the guys on the list?

Ouch... Botero and Gutierrez have been sidelined by Phonak indefinately. They have both been filmed with hidden cameras entering Fuentes clinic, and Phonak have desided, that they will not be racing before futher investegation have decided their involvment in the scandale. They will both be fired, if evidence can link them to forbidden substances.

I belive this proves that the team managements have to react harshly against those riders, who will be proven "customers" in Fuentes lab. But as I wrote earlier, it seems that some riders on the list have not necessarily been in direct contact with Fuentes himself, and others have consultet him for normale medical attention - so who knows, what will happen to those riders on the list.

The exclusion of Botero and Gutierrez was an honourable act from Phonak, no other teams have done so. Especially brave when you think of the fact that Botero was going to start the Dauphiné on Sunday as preparation for the TDF. Finally, a good sign from Phonak.

The team is now called "Astaná - Würth". Astaná is the capital of Kaza...  ??? (how do you write it in english?  :P) and it means, that the five most important industry firms will sponsor the team.

Think it's a bit ridiculous... don't they have no other problems in their country???

It's Kazachstan ;)

I think there are enough sponsors in spain but I guess they don't want to be sponsor of a team involved in a doping scandal.
Or maybe this was the only sponsor they could find in such a short time.

Kazachstan would help Vino at any time, as Vino is a good friend of the President of Kazachstan.

The country wants to help Vino, cuz they are sure he'll win the TdF

Yes, that's all clear, but I wanted to say that Kazachstan ( :D) has many problems with his poorness (or the pporness of the people who live there) and it's funny that they sponsor a cycling team. Better should help their country...  ::)

This does not mean that i'm not lucky Liberty found a new sponsor...

I don't think Kazakhstan is that poor at all... They aren't rich of course but definately not a Nation I would consider poor

The country isn't poor at all but I think the people who live there are poor.

That's what I wanted to say. There's a minority of rich industrials and the mayority of zhe population is poor.

Don´t think ASO will let Astana ride the Tour now, after 15 of Astana´s riders were on the list. ASO and LeBlanc have said they could withdraw the team on ethical reasons anytime they wanted.

15 of the 58 are from ASW? :o

yes they are

They announced their selection for the TdF, but probably some of the doped riders will still ride the Tour...

Did any of you read the last "news" on cyclingnews.com about operation puerto? If it´s true, something which seems very likely, it´s shocking.

Finally it happened, just as I thought. ASO have asked Astana to not participate in the Tour;a good decision I think.

This almost makes me sick. These people are a disgrace and I'm fed up of it.  After LeMond's interview as well, who do we believe in all this?  As usual, the headlines are taken away from the true stars of the sport and the fans are punished, as well as the innocent cyclists.

ASW doesn't agree as expected :D They are now going to the CAS...

They should definetely be excluded I think.....

Just read in Diariovasco that ASO and LeBlanc want Ullrich and Sevilla to be excluded as well, as their names were written on many blood bags and other stuff. hope they´ll be excluded.

Don't think they will do it. Without Vino and Ullrich the Tour would be much more disinterresting...

I'm no scientist nor an expert on legal matters, but couldn't dna-tests of the bloodbags found in Fuentes lab decide beyond any doubt from whom the blood origins. If the riders has nothing to hide, I can't see why they shouldn't agree to such a test.

they should just cancel the Tour de France if you ask my opinion. i'm sick of all those problems

I agree that the Tour would loose some interest if Ulle were to be banned, but I think it would be a wise decision from ASO, if it can prevent a Festina-like scandale during the Tour. Offcourse they can't and shouldn't ban him because of rumors in certain newspapers, but I believe ASO have access to the facts of this case, and will make their decisions based on these.

And I believe the Tour is bigger than any rider or team, so I'm looking forward to the race no matter who is riding. But certainly I prefere to keep focus on the actual racing.  

They seem to have quite a lot of proof now.....

If they withdraw Ullrich they have to ban a big group and I don't think they will do that.
Without riders, no Tour; but without the Tour there would be less teams :)

He´s all clear to race now;it´s confirmed. That´s a shame, but I´m really excited and nervous as to wether Wurth will start. We´ll know on friday the latest.

So, Basso, Ullrich,Beloki,Heras,Mancebo, Gutierrez cataluna, Santi Gonzalez and Hamilton proved to be a part of Operation Puerto. That´s one hell of a list. What will happen to them concerning the TDF now?

Other sources doesn't mention Basso and Mancebo... We'll know more tomorrow, when the final decision is taken.

And Menchoz, Flecha and Edo. Suspend everyone of them. This will certainly be an interesting few days, but this scandal really makes me pissed of. I´m just so angry right now........

Well, I really don't know what to believe anymore...

Yesterday Ritzau reported that no one in Team CSC was involved in the ongoing scandal - and then today a spanish radiostation suddently put Basso's name on the list? And why didn't El Pais mention Basso in their articles - that would have been a scoop?

As I understand the investegation by the spanish authorities is almost completed, and a representitive of the spanish Guardia Civil is going to meet with a french college tomorrow in Paris to inform about the results. If anyone in the Tour-field is incriminated by the investigation, then I'm sure they will suspended from the Tour and face legal actions. As they should be.

I'm a big fan of cycling and of CSC in particular - if these allegations against Basso proves to be true, I will have a hard time trusting anyone in this sport anymore.

I hate all this waiting.  I just want the guilty parties dealt with quickly.  Who knows what the tour will be like now?  It was going to be the most competitive tour for ages, now its going to be a tour de farce.

Lol nice play upon words :D

Well, all riders who are mentioned on the list will be withdrawed from the Tour and won't participate. So it's possible that only 150 riders will start or something like that...

It´s rumoured to be 22 TDF starters on the list that will be made official tomorrow. All of them will be excluded. I´m really nervous;quite sure no one of my favourites are on the list, but,hey, this is cycling. Agree with all of you;all the waiting is terrible. Imagine a Tour without Menchov,Mancebo,Ullrich,Basso and Beloki? Surely Vino will win it then...

I wonder how Riis and Team CSC will respond if Basso and Lombardi (also on the list) are excluded? What will T-mobile do if Ullrich and Sevilla are not allowed to start? And what will Rabobank do if Menchov and Flecha are suspended? AG2R have allready stated, that they will start with or without Mancebo, and I guess there is a reason why Astana Wurth have arrived with 11 riders.

This morning at 09:30 cet the Tour management will meet with the sporting directors, and I can't wait to hear the outcome of this meeting. I guess the worst case would be that some of the involved teams withdraw their whole lineup, and in that case we could actually end up with only 150 starters or less.

We still haven't heared all 22 (or 58) names, and who knows what will show up. I read somewhere that "The son of Rudy" was no longer with Rudy, but with Saiz - meaning Vino, not Ullrich. Anything seems possible in this case.

I´ve never been so excited before......

It's now official: ULLRICH is suspended by T-Mobile along with Sevilla and Rudy Pevenage. No Tour for them. What's next???

The list so far (31 riders)

Astaná-Würth: Michele Scarponi, Marcos Serrano, David Etxebarria, Joseba Beloki, Angel Vicioso, Isidro Nozal, Unai Osa, Jörg Jaksche

CSC: Ivan Basso

Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears: Constantino Zaballa

Saunier Duval: Carlos Zarate

AG2R: Francisco Mancebo

T-Mobile: Jan Ullrich, Oscar Sevilla

Phonak: Jose Enrique Gutierrez, Jose Ignacio Gutierrez

Comunidad Valenciana: Vicente Ballester, David Bernabeu, David Blanco Rodriguez, Jose Adrian Bonillla, Juan Gomis Lopez, Eladio Jimenez, David Latasa, Javier Pascual, Ruben Plaza, J.Luis M. Jimenez

Unibet.Com: Carlos Garcia Quesada

Retired/suspended riders: Roberto Heras, Angel Casero, Santiago Perez, Tyler Hamilton


And ASO rejects the CAS ruling - that should once again exclude Astana Würth from the race...

Oh my god, this is huge. Astana will certainly not ride it. Mancebo wont, and Basso will also be suspended. But why can´t we ever get the complete list....

Looks like I will have to change my GT prediction a little....

Jesus Hernandes
Andrle
Hruska
Davis
Javier Pascual Llorente
David Latasa
Carlos Garcia Quesada
Cabello
Jose Luis Martinez

they are also mentioned

Where did you find those names? Allan Davis?

yes allan davis and I heard Igor Gonzales the Galdeano (already retired but working for euskatel now) is also on the list
but all those thing are provisional  ;)

This whole thing makes me sick. I´m so depressed;so many riders of my liking are caught; Zaballa,Scarponi,Etxebarria,Beloki,Jimenez,Quesada,Plaza....

Well, it's a disaster. I'm so angry with Ullrich and everyone in this scandal. At least T-Mobile have acted quickly.  When do we find out about Basso and Astana?

Bjarne Riis has told danish media, that he is ready to copi T-Mobile and suspend Basso if the facts tie him to the scandal. So far all Riis knows for sure is, that Basso's name was brought up in af telephoneconversation between Fuentes and another "customer". He awaits the details of the investigation before making any decisions.

By now we know a lot of names associated with Fuentes, but for most of these we really don't know why they are mentioned. Some are mentioned because their names figures in Fuentes files, some because thier conversations with Fuentes have been recorded, some because they have been filmed visiting Fuentes clinic, and some for yet unknown reasons.

I like to stay a little naive, and hope that not all of the named riders (read: Basso) have actually been customerrs in Fuentes' bodyshop.

I hope Basso hasn't been involved too.  But one thing I've learned about this sport - if your name is mentioned officially, you're going down.  There's no smoke without fire.  I remember Pedro  Delgado in 1988.  He was caught having taken Probenicid, which at that time was on the IOC banned list but not yet on the UCI banned list.  He got away with it, but this was unusual.  It would do Basso good to state exactly what his business with Fuentes was.

On another note.  Is it legal for Astana to enter the tour with only 3 or 4 riders?  We have lost Ullrich, we are probable going to lose Basso as well.  It appears Vino is not involved with any of these stories, so he MUST race.  If not with Astana, can he change teams and replace one of the banned riders?

It has just been reported that also BASSO and MANCEBO have been suspended.

I have to find a new hobby - this is absurt.

Astana wont ride;that´s for sure I think. They can´t line up with just Vino, Contador and Kashechkin can they? After so many of their riders have been suspended, surely some organised doping has happened with Wurth. ASO denies them to start tomorrow, so they wont I think. And, you can´t change teams 24 hours before a race, that´s for sure. But,we have to remember, these suspended riders get what they deserve after all. They have let themselves down, their team down, the others teams down, the Tour de France down and cycling in general down. Suspend them!!! Btw, who´s going to win it now? Perhaps Mayo or Menchov....

Though, in the middle of all this, a lot of praise must go to T-Mobile. To kick out their own, big favourite along with Pevenage and Sevilla is a brave and necessary decision.

As the teams are not allowed to take in reserves(apparently), there will be many teams with just 6/7 riders on it. But what will T-Mobile do? Let Sinkewitz lead them? Or Rogers? Or Honchar? I guess Sastre will lead CSC and Moreau Ag2R.

Suddently I'm happy, that I'm going to spend most of the time during the Tour on a small greek island with no television. Until yesterday the fact that I couldn't follow the Tour intensly was actually treatening to drive my crazy - now it's my greatest source of comfort. I think the Tour will be farce with new speculations popping up all the time, and really: Do we believe the rest of the field to be clean? At least they are not stupid enough to get caught.

I feel like a child who has just been told that christmas is cancelled.

Agree, I really feel betraied(right spelled?).

http://www.cyclingpost.com/protour/races/tour06t.shtml

Updated as soon as possible, in blue the riders which are officially announced not to start.


My guess? Menchov

But why don´t we hear anything official about riders like Beloki,Nozal, Jackhse and Zaballa? All we´ve heard so far is about the favourites....

Why is Contador in blue? He wasn´t on any list was he? Or did I miss something?

Source: Cycling4all.com

Yeah, just read it on cyclingnews.com. But, doping in Liberty must have been organised the last couple of years. Almost every rider had had contact with Fuentes, previous riders like Hruska and Andrerl the same thing, Heras is caught,Saiz is in prison and Gonzalez de Galdeano is on the list as well. No shocker then that he spent his last three years or so at Liberty Seguros.

They can only start with 4, but Leblanc said there should be at least 6 riders per team...

they must be excluded....

I think that's what gonna happen...

that's what happened i think

They may not start!

I think they should start.  If they pull out, the world thinks they're guilty.  If the 4 lads ride, they might not win, but it will say alot for their innocence.

They wont, it´s official. They didn´t pull out of free will, the thing is that a team has to have at least 6 riders on it; Astana had just 4. That´s what made it impossible for Astana to ride the TDF.

Weel I'm still angry, but starting to calm down a little.

Now I try to look at the pattern of this whole affair, and it all seems very straight forward - with only a few exemptions. All the emplied riders are present or former members of Liberty Seguros (Astana Würth) and Communidad Valenciana (Kelme) - exempt Basso and Ullrich. What a coincidence - the two top favorites for the Tour. Neither have any ties to Spain - have never lived there, have never representet a spanish team, nothing exempt their alleged relationship to Dr. Fuentes. And furthermore they have both been working closely with Checchini, and supposedly he could have provided any "medical treatment" they would need - so why take their buisness to Spain - to Fuentes? I'm not a fan of conspiracytheory, but something doesn't add up.

And again, why haven't the full list of riders involved been published yet? Only 38 names are made public - the full list should include 58 riders. And exempt for some rumours of "Hijo de Rudico", homemovie of Sevilla and a recorded phonecall, no facts or evidence have been presented in the case - why is that? What are the authorities, the UCI and the team managers waiting for - holding back? Wil the scandale end here, or will more riders and teams get draged in at some point during the Tour? Is everyone now satisfied, and believe it will be a clean Tour (as stated by Leblanc)?

I'm just going to bed, and hope to wake up in a clean world - if the naivity works for everyone involved with pro cycling it might as well work for me.

(I do know that Hamilton do not fit the pattern described above, but he lived most of his pro career in Spain - as a next door neighbour to Armstrong by the way - makes you wonder...)

Interesting that about Lance by the way.....

What about an Italian scandal next month? I don't think all riders are caught, it's impossible that it's only in and about Spain, there is much more...

According to a Dutch doctor there are more of this kind of networks in Spain, Italy and Austria... :-\

That's what I think too...

But whether they will be all caught or not, that's the question. I hope so :)

Comunidad Valenciana stops the sponsoring as well... So probably the team disappears after 26 years (First Kelme, then Comunidad Valenciana)

Well I think it's a good thing that the team disappears. That way there is room for a new team with new ideas and new structure.  It's a shame - I have a Kelme top from a few years ago and I've got good memories of them all the way back to Fabio Parra in the late 80's.

I liked the team a lot as well. But it´s good to get rid of them when organised doping has been going on. Have they stopped the sponsoring with immediate effect, or is it at the end of the year?

It seems to be immediate.  If the allegations are proved correct, they will have no riders left for the rest of the season anyway.  And the Vuelta have said they will follow le Tour's example and ban anyone involved in the doping.

There might be few teams at the Vuelta this year;no CV or Astana hopefully. Perhaps they will give a couple of other teams wildcards, Barloworld for example.

Joined the team this season:

Carlos Abellan
Assan Bazayev 
Andrei Kashechkin 
Aitor Osa
Unai Osa 
Eladio Sanchez Prado
Alexandre Vinokourov 
Sergei Yakovlev

Only the Osa brothers are on the list.


Left the team this season:

René Andrle
Koldo Gil Perez 
Igor G. de Galdeano
Jesús Hernandez
Jan Hruska
Nuno Ribeiro

With exception of Koldo Gil, everybody is on the list :D


Btw Caruso is on the list too, this explains his good performance in the Giro :D

Other interesting news: Santos Gonzalez Capilla used dope as well... Not a real surprise :D
He's riding for 3 Molinos Resort (where, I think, some others use too), therefor he rode for Phonak (not a good reputation as well) and even for ONCE, which became Liberty Seguros...

Well, he´s been caught once before....

I think that the cycling federations should consider making a 2 year ban for all first time dopers. No matter what the case is that should be given. If a second doping case then should arrive the rider should be taken of the list. Simply be removed from all cyclingsport. He wouldn't be allowed to race neither Road, MB, Cyclocross, Lane or whatever he wanted to do. That would stop them from doing the 2nd occasion i believe...

Whether the punishements will be, there will be always some dopers... Even if you whould ban them.

On the list of 200 riders, about 150 would be other sporters such as footballers... I hope hey will be punished too :)

FIFA just said no footballers were on the list....

Will we ever know who else is on that list?

From the start of this case it has been reported that 200+ names were on the list - of these 58 are supposed to be pro cyclists. If these facts are true, then why have only 38 names been revealed? And why would the authorities reveal only some of the names, and not all of them at once. Roumers put several footballers from Real Madrid, as well as star tennisplayer Nadal on the list - if this is true the scandal would explode, and all spanish professional sport would be scandaliced. Is someone beeing protected to prevent the scandal of escalating? And finally, how long can the spanish authorities, UCI and WADA wait before the they present the accused riders with actual charges? No matter if they are guilty or not, it is unacceptable that they don't know what the charges will be, or if there is even going to be pushed any charges.

I think this scandal could easilly turn into a farce, if not full story is made public - and the sooner the better. But maybe the objective is just to point out a few scapegoats, and then sweep the whole story under the carpet. Or at least the evidence is so weak, that tehy can't be brought to court.

Btw, it seems we might have a new scandal waiting after the Tour. T-mobile have announced, that they are going to investigate some of their own riders relationship to Dr. Ferrari (Rogers, Sinkewitz ect.). It seems T-mobile is going to be the lokomotiv in cleaning up the sport. They suspended Lüdewig today because of informations dated back to 1998.

Agree with you,noclue. But now I´m totally confused. Wasn´t Comunidad Valenciana supposed to stop the sponsoring? And weren´t CV´s riders suspended along with everyone else on the list? Doesn´t seem like it, as they are starting the Trofeo Agostinho soon with everyone of their riders on the list.

Perhaps the last 16 riders are less known and therefor not so interesting to take out of the game at this moment just yet... Trust me all of this has a great influence by the media, and they will be released when the hurricane is starting to drift away... They want to make the sensation as always, why they also waited untill day 1 before the Tour... Of course they knew what they wanted to do around the 28th but they thought "Let's just keep it for a couple of days to get the best of the worst"

And her comes Fuentes himself...

For the first time Fuentes has commented on the revelations of the scandal, and he claims that some of the riders banned from TdF he have never meet, while some actually taking part in the Tour are patients of his. He refuses to name anyone pointing to the doctor/patient confidentiallity. At the same time he shakes his head, when the authorities claims that no footballers and tennisplayers are on the list. He says that he have treated athleets from several sports such as football, athletics and tennis.

I know that Fuentes might not be the most trusted person in the world right about now, but why should he state, that he have treated others if not true? He says that it seems like some kind of an intentional selective revelation, and that he doesn't understand why.

Btw, none of his patients have been doped ;)

As I wrote in a previously, this will turn into a farce. 

I wouldn´t trust Fuentes for anything in the world.....

I do agree...

But still we have to remember that he just delievered the goods - the cheaters are riding bikes, kicking footballs, swinging ketchers ect... He's just a simple criminal - it is the doped athleets that makes me sick - they again and again corrupt the sport. And surely doping will exist even if Fuentes is put away.

this scandal is F.....d scandal Beloki is best ever